Monday, August 13, 2007
Question on Unconditional Election
In a comment on Unconditional Election, Ben Howard wrote,
Ben,
Thanks for the question. I'll try to answer it.
The Westminster Confession in Chapter III states it as, "Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions."
And in Chapter XVI: "These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith: and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the Gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.
"Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, beside the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will, and to do, of His good pleasure: yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them."
If election is based on foreseen faith and good works, then we are saved on the basis of works and God makes His choices in time, not in eternity. As Ephesians 1:4 says, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love." His choice was made in eternity. Paul goes on to say in Titus 3:5, "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit." So it is not by works of righteousness past, present, or future.
Notice also that Paul said that God's choice was that we should be holy. Not that we already were holy. It is not of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:9). 2 Timothy 1:9 says He "has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began."
Now, think logically about foreknowledge. Can you foreknow what has not already been foreordained? If something were a mere possibility, I could not say that I foreknew it to be so. Foreknowledge requires foreordination. Check the Scriptures on this, and you will find that God foreknows what He has foreordained:
Ben, in your question, you mention the Romans 8 passage. So let's look at that:
So what does it mean by know? Know is not just intellectual, but volitional. Notice the active will in these passages:
Did God not know about the rest of the earth's population? Of course, He knew. But this is a willful knowing.
Does God only know you if you love Him? Is it like the childhood game where you put a blanket on your head, because if you can't see the other person, he can't see you? So if you don't love God, He won't know you exist? Of course not! Again, it's a willful knowing.
In the same way, the foreknown of Romans 8 are foreordained for His grace. Paul uses this word the same way in chapter 11:
Would it have made sense for Paul to say that God had chosen on the basis of future faith or future good works when he had just said that it was according to His purpose? In other words, His purpose cannot be free if it is dependent on future acts outside Himself. The Arminian view makes man ultimately responsible for his own election. If we hold to Total Depravity, that's not a pretty picture.
The Scriptures present a much better picture:
We believe in Christ because we are saved. The very seeking for salvation is the gift of God. As Augustine said, "The elect of God are chosen by Him to be His children, in order that they might be made to believe, not because He foresaw that they would believe."
Brian,
Not to be disagreeable here, but this has been my stumblingblock since college to truly holding to all five traditional points of Calvinist teaching. I now find myself in agreement with T-LIP, but U (Unconditional) Election, I have not been totally able to reconcile to scripture. In Romans 8:28, it clearly says that those he foreknew, he predestined. This is repeated in 1 Peter 1:2. I clearly see election, I don't think you can say you your theology is scriptural unless you believe in election; but it is the UNCONDITIONAL part that I have a problem with. I know it is an armenian belief, but I am still leaning towards Conditional Election. How would you interpret those passages? This may sound dumb, but I really would like to be convinced of Unconditional Election, because I am so much in agreement on 90% of the Reformed position.
I continue to keep you in my prayers.
Grace and Peace,
Ben Howard
Ben,
Thanks for the question. I'll try to answer it.
The Westminster Confession in Chapter III states it as, "Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions."
And in Chapter XVI: "These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith: and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the Gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.
"Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, beside the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will, and to do, of His good pleasure: yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them."
If election is based on foreseen faith and good works, then we are saved on the basis of works and God makes His choices in time, not in eternity. As Ephesians 1:4 says, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love." His choice was made in eternity. Paul goes on to say in Titus 3:5, "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit." So it is not by works of righteousness past, present, or future.
Notice also that Paul said that God's choice was that we should be holy. Not that we already were holy. It is not of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:9). 2 Timothy 1:9 says He "has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began."
Now, think logically about foreknowledge. Can you foreknow what has not already been foreordained? If something were a mere possibility, I could not say that I foreknew it to be so. Foreknowledge requires foreordination. Check the Scriptures on this, and you will find that God foreknows what He has foreordained:
But he is unchangeable and who can turn him?
What he desires, that he does.
For he will complete what he appoints for me;
and many such things are in his mind.
Job 23:13, 14
When he gave to the wind its weight,
and meted out the waters by measure;
when he made a decree for the rain,
and a way for the lightning of the thunder;
then he saw it and declared it;
he established it, and searched it out.
Job 28:25, 27
I praise thee, for thou art fearful and wonderful.
Wonderful are thy works!
Thou knowest me right well;
my frame was not hidden from thee,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.
Thy eyes beheld my unformed substance;
in thy book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.
Psalm 139:14-16
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations."
Jeremiah 1:5
Ben, in your question, you mention the Romans 8 passage. So let's look at that:
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.Romans 8:28-30
So what does it mean by know? Know is not just intellectual, but volitional. Notice the active will in these passages:
"You only have I known
of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you
for all your iniquities."
Amos 3:2
Did God not know about the rest of the earth's population? Of course, He knew. But this is a willful knowing.
"But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him."1 Corinthians 8:3
Does God only know you if you love Him? Is it like the childhood game where you put a blanket on your head, because if you can't see the other person, he can't see you? So if you don't love God, He won't know you exist? Of course not! Again, it's a willful knowing.
"For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish."
Psalm 1:6
"I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own."John 10:14
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me."John 10:27
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"Matthew 7:23
In the same way, the foreknown of Romans 8 are foreordained for His grace. Paul uses this word the same way in chapter 11:
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, "LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Would it have made sense for Paul to say that God had chosen on the basis of future faith or future good works when he had just said that it was according to His purpose? In other words, His purpose cannot be free if it is dependent on future acts outside Himself. The Arminian view makes man ultimately responsible for his own election. If we hold to Total Depravity, that's not a pretty picture.
The Scriptures present a much better picture:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."Ephesians 2:8, 9
"And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ."Acts 18:27, 28
We believe in Christ because we are saved. The very seeking for salvation is the gift of God. As Augustine said, "The elect of God are chosen by Him to be His children, in order that they might be made to believe, not because He foresaw that they would believe."
I have heard E'phraim bemoaning,
'Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened,
like an untrained calf;
bring me back that I may be restored,
for thou art the LORD my God.
For after I had turned away I repented;
and after I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh;
I was ashamed, and I was confounded,
because I bore the disgrace of my youth.'
Jeremiah 31:18, 19
Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.Acts 5:31
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."Acts 11:18
Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?Romans 2:4
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.Acts 13:48




1 Comments:
Brian,
Sorry no response to your post. I have a very long one started, but won't post it. Suffice it to say, I appreciated the detailed response and read it the day you posted it, but have been having further conversation on that topic with some friends locally to sharpen my thoughts. I still don't know that I can totally espouse unconditional election, because I still see a dichotomy in Scripture when it comes to election, and I think maybe God intends that tension to exist just as I see an "Almost, but not yet" tension in prophecy. (I willingly admit my progressive dispensational framework here)
I thank you very much, once again for your response, and please pardon my long silence. I am in the middle of packing to move to California and things are quite hectic.
God Bless,
Ben
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